In this episode, Vince Fowler, CEO, performance coach, endurance athlete, veteran—and above all, an outstanding human—shares with us how he has navigated the challenging path of overcoming PTSD.
In this episode, Vince Fowler, CEO, performance coach, endurance athlete, veteran—and above all, an outstanding human—shares with us how he has navigated the challenging path of overcoming PTSD. Vince talks about his powerful journey of rediscovering his identity, battling self-judgment, and facing societal pressures head-on.
Together, we delve into the importance of self-compassion and the freedom that comes from shedding societal labels. Vince's story reveals the deeper meaning that lies beyond titles, and he shares heartfelt insights on personal reconnection.
Do you know who you are and what you’re not? Listen to Vince’s story and get insights on how to reconnect with your true, inner self and embrace life’s transitions.
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Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Art Blanchford: Welcome to life in transition podcast. Really happy today to have a guest with me, Vince Fowler, who is a human being, a CEO, performance coach, endurance athlete, veteran, and, PTSD thriver. I'm going to say at this point and Vince, I'm really, really happy to have you here, really, exciting, interesting, deep conversation we were just getting into and wanted to push the record button to capture it for our guests and our listeners.
So thank you for being here.
Vince Fowlers: thank you, Art. I'm definitely looking forward to this.
Art Blanchford: Awesome. well, let's jump in. A question that I always start with, Vince, which is what would you consider Your most meaningful, most transformational change or transition you've been through in your life.
Vince Fowlers: It would be really easy and clean to say, falling in love and having children and starting a business or even my military career, but. I think for me, the most meaningful transition in life has been going through a PTSD diagnosis and coming out of that. And I do like your choice of words, thriver.
And,it's the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life. Harder than a hundred K ultra harder than. Divorce harder than remarriage harder than watching a son in cardiac arrest. And yes, happy story. He's 14 years old now, but, very positive outcome from that. scary moment, but yeah, working through post traumatic stress diagnosis that I did not see coming, nor did I believe it.
And for a while and kind of, Rebuilding my entire life.
Art Blanchford: what was that like? You said you didn't see it coming and you didn't believe it for a while. So, what was the thought process? Like, what were you feeling that even brought you to a place where you might be in a place to be diagnosed with post traumatic stress?
And what were you feeling about the diagnosis? Like, what was going on? What were you feeling at that time?
Vince Fowlers: Last answer is I was feeling like a fraud. I didn't feel that I was a true veteran despite my seven years in the infantry, a military deployment to Somalia. why did you feel like,
Art Blanchford: why did you feel like you weren't a legit veteran?
Like you weren't a real veteran.
Vince Fowlers: I hadn't seen combat. And when I pick a country, Canada or United States or one of any one of our allies, when someone dies in theater or someone's involved in combat, come home alive to parades. I did not. And when, and if they come home dead, they, in Canada, we have highway of heroes.
So fallen soldier will land at Canadian forces based Trenton and there'll be this long drive towards Toronto and they go wherever they go to be released to the family, that highway of heroes. So I've got 13 friends who've died on deployment and three of them were really close friends of mine.
And so I was comparing my service to their sacrifice. And that wasn't helpful, helpful for anybody. So, when I was diagnosed, I didn't see it coming because I was picking something up at a military office. So I was picking up some poppies for remembrance day, which was about month and a half away.
I was going to drop them in the mail for a cousin of mine in Hong Kong who wants to participate in remembrance day in Hong Kong. And in that conversation of picking up those poppies, I literally bump into a guy named Sean Wood. he's one of the staff there. And it turns out he's also a liaison between Veterans and Veterans Affairs Canada and,different therapy protocols, I guess.
Anyways, he Just like anybody who's both, two ex military people, we started to have a conversation and a coffee and an hour into this coffee, this random coffee, he goes, Hey, how would you like to talk to our friends at the OSI clinic? Well, friend is code for psychologist and OSI is operational stress injury.
And I naively said, sure, quote, I say, sure. If I can get some free psych to help me coach my clients, I'm in. within a few weeks, I'm meeting with these, psychologists, the clinic director and one of her team. And so they've asked me a series of questions and I'm there for four hours and feelings are tender and raw.
And I just, connected to the fact that Remembrance Day is coming up and there's these 13 people I consistently reflect on. So I'm rather emotional, rather cheerful and sad, and so I didn't see it coming I didn't go there for diagnosis. ultimately went to pick up some poppies and I'd been out of the military since 1996.
And so, and when was this, what year was this roughly? this was October, 2019. Okay. I mean, comparatively recent, but I'd been out of the military. But 23 years later. Yeah, this is 23 years later. So, so I, again, I didn't see it coming.
Art Blanchford: in hindsight now, how had PTSD shown up in your life?
once you realize that, how had it shown up between 1996
Vince Fowlers: 2019? Such a great question. So looking in the rear view mirror, knowing what we now know, the behaviors were there. Big one was hypervigilance. didn't matter, whether it was the perceived threat. So I sit with my back at the wall in a cafe or, a lot of self judgment about others, myself, judgment about circumstances and,
Art Blanchford: trying to control everything that wasn't in my control.
Vince Fowlers: So just really working hard on that. and then also
Art Blanchford: part of it, this thing about judgment, Vince, if you go back there, you said judgment on myself and others. if you take that one level down, what does that mean? there's a very, yeah.
Vince Fowlers: Brené Brown and a few others, she's got this million dollar question that I fell in love with. Do you feel I think this is in rising strong. Can't recall, but she asked the question, do you feel people are doing the best they can with the tools they have? And she talks about player X, player Y.
Yep. Yep. I, Listen to her say that on the audio book, I'm thinking, no, of course I don't. I mean, this person isn't doing the best they can with the tools they have. That person's this, that person's that, making a lot of judgments, a lot of sweeping judgments, noticing the actions and outcomes of people with no context to the iceberg underneath the waterline, no compassion, no empathy.
Art Blanchford: Got it. Wow. Yeah. So that is really being in a state of hypervigilance of survival of fight or flight all the time. Right. And just all the time.
Vince Fowlers: All the time. and so her research exposed most people who feel others are not doing the best they can with the tools they have. If you look in the mirror, probably feel that about ourselves.
And it was like, Holy crap, that's true for me. I'm not. And that was very judgmental. I don't get up early enough. I don't get to work soon enough. I don't work as many hours as I should. I take too much time off. don't earn enough credit. It was always going. Always going and one could say, well, I learned about, right and wrong in the military and perfectionism, but I was also failing to ship as well.
So there's a tremendous amount of judgment about others and circumstances outside of my control because it was a reflection of how much I judged myself. The less I judge self, the less I judge others, the less I judge circumstances. It's more like it is what it is. Very much more in the Buddhist spectrum of observation.
And then the third behavior was not directly associated with PTSD, but it was just a narrative of my own, that my personal value is conditional on achievement. I'm not saying that's a direct correlation, but. it was really out of balance instead of just being worth it because I'm human, being valuable because I'm human.
I matter because I'm human, despite my flaws, despite my results, it was, Oh, I haven't earned a new client lately. Oh, I don't have enough banking. Oh, I don't live in the right neighborhood constantly. that narrative was not helpful. So, yeah,
Art Blanchford: I think a lot of people, maybe not the first two as much, but that last narrative, I think, is one that's very common.
I know I had in spades, that last one. And I think a lot of people do that, , we have to earn our worth.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah,
Art Blanchford: you know that we have to earn our love. We have to earn our acceptance. We have to earn our belonging, right?
Vince Fowlers: a second dance partner to that one called the pleaser Adam grants research calls it the unhealthy giver but worth and value are conditional on doing nice things for other people first Yeah and I grew up in a home where that was very much the narrative like do unto others first so they may do unto you but What I like about Adam Grant's research is that the unhealthy giver is someone who has no self care strategies being implemented, no boundaries or limited boundaries.
They don't ask for help when they need it, and they don't accept help when offered, and we can become the healthy giver by doing the exact opposite, exercise boundaries, exercise self care, ask for help when they need it. And accept help when offered. And that was another sign I think of anybody struggling with post traumatic stress is that there's that unhealthy giver mixed into everything.
Because again, my value is conditional on doing good things for others. First, I'll help you do your homework and thus never get to mine.was underperforming as an employee at times because I was trying to help others. Oh, wow. Bonuses and commissions don't come from that. They come from me actually doing the work.
Right. Cause I was always outside of the military. I'd always been in sales. That's right.
Art Blanchford: you know, that's interesting. I've been, reading a lot in the message recently that Eugene Patterson's version of the Bible that's translated directly from the oldest text you can find into modern English.
So it reads quite differently than a traditional Bible. And I was reflecting on that, we all know, Matthew, Jesus says something about, love God. With all your heart, spirit and mind, and then love your neighbor as yourself in Patterson's translation, it's like love God with everything that you are and all your connection and then love others as you first love yourself.
Vince Fowlers: I appreciate that a whole lot better.
Art Blanchford: Right? and to me, that's what it is like connect to some sort of source or spirit or wherever it's coming from. That you can be filled up, that you have innate worth just by being a human being and then love yourself because you don't have anything to love with unless you love yourself.
we twist that around so much because most of the time and that, we want to take care of everybody else. And then we have nothing to take care of ourselves with, or do we really take care of them with we build resentments. Brene Brown talks a lot about that. I love Brene Brown about how, expectations attached to giving are just pre conditioned or pre negotiated resentments or something.
Yeah. Yeah. And if we think about what influences a lot of people is TV movie, the news, problems are solved in sitcoms in a 20 minute episode, plus your commercials and movies and, Avengers, you know, who doesn't love the Avengers movie series, the world in 90 minutes.
Right.
Vince Fowlers: Right. And it's not that we're not intelligent enough to notice that, Hey, this is not real. This is make believe, but it, isn't it interesting that. we make all these comparisons to make believe characters, Oh, so and so would handle this way better than I am. Therefore I am X. and social science is not a mainstream, learning discipline in our curriculums, right?
We, no offense to Greek mythology or, , how the earth was created. For example, I think, and what is say geography and all these things, these are all great. But, uh, Equally as important is how do we function, what are the most simplest mechanisms of the brain that we can get across to children and young teens in a way that's easily, applicable in life and easy to implement, easy to apply, so to speak, by easy, I mean, the mechanics of the protocol, the anatomy of, so to speak, right.
So,
Art Blanchford: yeah, and that comparison part you talk about, like, we compare ourselves to the Avengers or something. I mean, I think there's always been a comparison, which, you know, comparisons, the thief of all joy, but we used to compare ourselves in our village or in our tribe, right now, with social media, we compare ourselves and to the best of the best and the brightest or the shiniest in the whole world.
Correct. And we're not even comparing ourselves to them because of social media. It's a curated image. We're comparing our insides to their shiny.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah. Our worst day versus their highlight versus
Art Blanchford: their touch up enhanced managed by a whole bunch of people image to look a certain way. Best day. Yeah, right.
And that, I think that's, where it's, , so dangerous with social media and comparison and all the things where if we start to look outside of ourselves, which is the same thing that you were talking about, just in a different, arena, but the same thing you're talking about, like if you have to earn a certain amount to be loved or to be worthwhile, if you have to live in a certain neighborhood, it's the same thing.
Like we're looking outside of ourselves for something to make us okay. Yeah. And as we talked about right before we hit the record button. if I'm looking outside of myself hard enough for something to be okay, and I'm really ambitious and strong and smart, and I go get all those things, and I still don't feel okay, I take my own life in a worst case scenario.
Vince Fowlers: I think, it's Viktor who says when we lose hope that tomorrow will be better than today, and when we lose meaning, like I have no value, I have no meaning, I have no significance, I don't matter, then it's, an exit.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. Yeah.
Vince Fowlers: And men are very successful, to end of life exits to suicide.
We're typically very successful at that activity.
Art Blanchford: And it's the fastest increasing deaths of despair as a whole, not straight up suicides, but if you include alcohol and drug addiction and so forth, that's the right there. Are the fastest increasing and the highest in the middle aged men, but they're also increasing very happy, very fast.
And for example, in young women, 13 to 24. Sad. Right. And a lot of that because of that comparison and looking outside of ourself or something else
Vince Fowlers: to make
Art Blanchford: us better.
Vince Fowlers: So talk going back to that, going back to that question about what were the signs in the rear view mirror to others that just immediately pop up are, very reactive to problems and challenges, very reactive through anger, being a big one and no ability to, so something would provoke you and you just go straight to anger.
Correct. And with anger being just an emotion, like I love Susan David's work where she says, anger is emotion and emotions are data. They're signposts telling us where we are. It's what do we do with that anger? And I only knew how to be aggressive, passive, aggressive, passive. I didn't know anything about this, assertive channel.
Art Blanchford: boundary as a taking care of yourself or, Hey, that's not okay.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah. And the other, sign was a tremendous amount of numbing. Now I didn't use drugs or alcohol as a numbing factor, largely because I couldn't afford it. what was your numbing factor? Ben's, Work work athletics. Yeah.
I'll just play more rugby. I'll coach more rugby. I'll go to more rugby. I'll play on more teams. All right. I'll, I'll play at that higher level, which by the way, just continue to feed that value is conditional upon achievement. Right? So it was
Art Blanchford: hidden. It was, it was even two things that are in general considered good.
Yeah, we're being used for a bad purpose to avoid yourself to avoid feeling to numb out so you don't have to face this uncomfortable feeling inside you.
Vince Fowlers: Gabor Mate calls it the difference between acceptable addiction and unacceptable addiction. So drugs, alcohol, sex are actually that was one of my addictions too.
but drugs and alcohol would be in gambling, for example, unacceptable, unacceptable addictions. and then work exercise, very easily can be, acceptable addictions. Eating for the most part is an acceptable addiction. Like we don't eating
Art Blanchford: is acceptable. And I would say exercise and work aren't even acceptable.
They're praised. They're praised. They're good job. I mean, I'm a workaholic. I'm in the 12 step program. I've completed four workaholics anonymous, and I know it because that was my one and only drug, like everything. And I see it all the time. Yeah. I was working because that's what I know what to do and how not to feel just execute.
Just get shit done.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah, just if I'm doing things, I don't have to feel things. That's right.
Art Blanchford: So the problem with that, and I saw so clearly in this last week, the problem with that is that everything becomes gray. If I don't feel things like the emotions you talked about the sadness and the joy, right?
Without emotions, everything goes from color. To gray touch loses its sensation smell loses its sensation Everything comes to the middle because we don't want to feel the extremes We're afraid of them and then life becomes gray and if it becomes gray enough It's again becomes hopeless and then it's not worth it.
And then you check out right if you take it to its extreme That's perfectly said. Yeah, the very thing we avoid Is our very life, essence of life,
Vince Fowlers: I go camping. So I'm currently recovering from an injury. So I'm not training for an ultra currently, but instead I continue to spend time in the mountains, living in Calgary, very similar to Denver.
So I'm 40 minutes from the Rocky mountains and less than an hour from a wonderful trail head that gets me deep into the woods quickly. Nice. And, it's what you had just said there, like I smell nature, can smell the moss, I can smell the off gassing that the trees give off. I can smell how the sunlight impacts the plants around us.
I can smell the breeze coming, like bringing, the humidity off the river, or if I'm near the ocean, but, I don't live near the ocean, but you know what I mean? Like I can smell, I can hear difference between a squirrel and a crow and, immediately be fine with those noises.
Vince Fowlers: I've been reunited with my senses. Yeah.
Art Blanchford: That's a great way to say it. Reunited with my senses. Because you know, like, this thing, this body that we get to be in, it's a sensual thing. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And to tune those out is to live a disembodied life, which comes to depression or what's next.
And to, be really reunited with your senses fully is to live in awe and wonder and ecstasy all the time. If you're fully connected and embodying your senses,
Vince Fowlers: I probably have this wrong. I used to have this memorized, but there's perception what's my perspective of that, my perception of that.
And then there's perception, I think is the word what are your feet feel like on the floor? But up until I asked that question. It wasn't even on the radar. Right.
Art Blanchford: Right. So
Vince Fowlers: queuing questions, it's called a mind body scan that I learned, what am I feeling in the body? initially it was major joints, ankles, knees, hips, and I would do that on the way to the gym.
And then I started to say, okay, well, how do my muscles feel? I do, like a, flex release, right? Yeah. Attention release exercise. And then, well, how does my stomach feel and all this is very relevant when I was running. Cause I would, I'd be in a race and I'd be feeling the sensation of pain. And I would just say, okay, let's do this mind body scan.
What are we feeling in our body? And I'd go all the way through all my joints, my muscles, my stomach. And I think, actually, I feel no pain anywhere. So why am I feeling this pain? Interesting. And there was no acute pain anywhere, but there was yet this sensation of pain. And then I would just go, okay, so how does the ground feel underneath my feet?
Uh huh. I'd be like, oh, it feels stable. I feel pebbles. I feel flat, I, I feel angles and stuff like that. And all of a sudden I just have that conversation with myself and I would do it out loud too. Yeah. Yeah. That's very, much more effective than doing it just in your head. Yeah. Yeah.
So I do that exercise out loud and then I'd say, Hey, Why don't we run to that tree? Just that tree up there. Right. you know, if I'm in an open field, that tree might be a hundred yards away. Right. If I'm in trees, it might be 30, but I'd say, well, let's run to that tree and I'll run with you.
That'd be my outside voice and my inside voice. Oh, thanks. And so I would run with me. And that's transformational experience that, well, I love my children deeply I saw them being born and I cut the umbilical cord. I have video and pictures of my wedding and I love my wife deeply.
There is something uniquely different about being reintroduced to my senses and the environment around me if I were to think about it, Much longer. It would bring a tear of
Art Blanchford: gratitude. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm going to do another podcast about this specifically, but I completed the Hoffman process last week.
I'm familiar with that. And it's integration of those four parts, spirit, self, emotional, self intellect, they call it, mental and the body and how to live an integrated life. And that's where I feel like I feel like My life is in vivid color right now.
Vince Fowlers: That is really cool. And I just said that out loud.
Cause I'm going to make a note for myself. Yeah, no,
Art Blanchford: and there's nothing wrong with like right now I have this sadness coming up. Wow. There's sadness coming up. It's part of the dance. It's part of the symphony. symphony can only be high notes. Depression is something different.
That's like a blocker emotion because that's this hopelessness. But sad is a perfectly good emotion and happiness and all of it. But I feel so. Alive, like I run all the time, maybe it may, I'm not willing to admit that I'm an exercise addict yet, but I'm a multitask addict. So I always run listening to a book or a podcast or something to improve myself or editing podcasts or multitasking,
Vince Fowlers: maximize time on feet.
Art Blanchford: Yeah, yeah, or Tony Robbins. What is that? Net time? Net equivalent times are no additional time. I just said, I just tuned into myself. Like I've been running. Twice and biking once since I got back or three times. I didn't even take my phone. I haven't done that in forever. Not because I should or shouldn't or any of that.
I just wanted to be present with my run. Right? I wanted to feel and see and smell. And, I always practice 15 minutes of silence and awareness when I'm running. But that's like another ticking the box instead of just living. I found myself coming home on, uh, Monday night for my men's group all the windows down sunroof open sliding back glass open stereo 30 out of 30 You know Jamming out and just feeling and not just singing and listening to the music but feeling the perfect Evening breeze on my skin and just being fully alive.
Yeah, and that's yeah I mean, that's how we all deserve to live and we all just by being a human being that's what Our life birthright is, but it's hard for me to access.
Vince Fowlers: So just like two people are allegedly on a date. And yet both, you know, how many times have we been at a restaurant and we see the two people both on their phone, right?
Right. When early days I'd go on my training runs, I would often have a podcast or an audio book. The audio book in the beginning was always David Goggins Can't Hurt Me. I've listened to that book eight times. Wow. and it was what I needed then. Right,
Art Blanchford: sure. Yeah,
Vince Fowlers: no fault, no blame, right? That's right.
And when I did my first ultra, they advise you to not listen to anything while you run just because, Not my very first ultra, cause it was inner city, in a big park area. But, my first ultra literally in the middle of nowhere, Blair Moore, Alberta, Rocky mountains. because of wildlife.
Oh, right. So you don't get jumped on by a mountain lion. Yeah. We got mountain lion. We got grizzly bear. Yeah. Everything else is cool, but those two are very real and they do exist. And while there's not a lot of. Documentation of anybody seeing anything up close. It's a prob it's a possibility. So they say, Hey, try to avoid listening with ear pods in.
So it was the very first time I had nothing and I thought, this is amazing. Now I'm having a relationship with myself
Art Blanchford: and I noticed, especially running an ultra, because that peels so much stuff as well without the distraction, right? You go to 11
Vince Fowlers: minutes, 15 seconds or whatever it was that day. And I learned that the birds start chirping at around three 30 on that particular day was July 7th.
And, the birds, once there's just a hint of a sun on the horizon, like a hint of morning dawn, the birds start singing. I was like, I had no idea how early those birds wake up , and then there's this moment where they get quiet again. So it was just like, I never would have noticed that or other things had I had air pods in and whatnot.
So I typically, especially in the back country, I never listened to anything. And even when I run around the neighborhood, I mean, it's kind of, 50 50, it just really depends on the state I'm in. And if I need to have a conversation with myself, I'll leave tech at home. Yeah. if I'm out, just having, if I'm literally just going for a fun run, you're like, let's mix it up and I'll put on music, high tempo music or something.
Art Blanchford: Sure.
Vince Fowlers: Just shake it out.
Art Blanchford: Yeah, nothing wrong with that either, but there's no judgment. It's all about why are you doing it? Are you doing it because you don't want to pay attention? Are you doing it because you really need to get something done and you can run at the same time and you want to get a run in also today, or is it part of the fun of running?
Like you said, you want to put some music in and rock out, go for it. Right. But to be aware and not hiding because of it or not doing it for shoulds. So if that.
Vince Fowlers: sales rep or that executive or that CEO is out there and they're putting in a workout and they're listening to their podcast or getting in an episode or whatever, and they're struggling with frustration, they're struggling with irritation, they're struggling with sadness or, any pick and emotion, , their heart's just been broken or they've, in the, Part of their companies had to been, say, dissolved.
Right. and they're really frustrated. It would be very easy to just go foran exercise, a run and just mask all the pain with the podcast. It's then where I think, where do we get to know ourself? Okay. I'm not feeling well. I'm frustrated. I'm this and that, or I feel frustrated as much better than I am.
That's right.
Art Blanchford: Absolutely. Thank you.
Vince Fowlers: Yep. Part of me, Is frustrated because we can be happy and sad at the same time. Absolutely. Yeah. Then why don't I just go for a run give myself some space To process this. Yeah.
Art Blanchford: To feel
Vince Fowlers: think. Feel,
Art Blanchford: feel our way through this. Yeah, no, that makes sense. So, coming back on this transition, you've been to the Vet Center, you've now figured out you have PTSD, you still have some denial.
Looking back, you see a lot of these different symptoms that you didn't see at the time. happened next? You said this is the most important transition, most difficult transition you've had in your life. What made it the most impactful? What made it the most important? Number one, I got to rediscover who
Vince Fowlers: I am.
Wow. What does that mean to you? Previous to this experience, I am blank. So pick a title. Like a business title, professional title, military rank. I'm a coach, I'm a veteran, I'm a corporal, I'm a this, I'm a that, and I had all these titles. I'm a rugby player, I'm conservative, I'm not liberal, I'm not NDP, I'm not this party, I'm not that party.
I'm red, not blue, like, pick, right? I had all these identities. every identity has its own tax. This is Glennon Doyle talking to Adam Grant. He says, every identity comes with rules, dogma, and an enemy. Mm. And I was like, oh my goodness. As a veteran, okay, as a soldier, I'm a soldier.
Well, the rules, have the National Defense Act, and we also have civil law. the dogma. There's all sorts of dogma in the military, and it's from unit to unit. And there's a clear and identifiable enemy. Yeah. Same as a veteran, the enemy changes from, let's say the Soviet union, which when I was in, now it's ISIS and it's, Al Qaeda and, pick whatever, right.
but as a veteran, the enemy transitions to the federal government. Veterans affairs, they don't pay fast enough. There's far too much red tape. I'm stuck in limbo, stuck in purgatory. as a Democrat or Republican, the enemy is the opposite. The rules are this, the dogma is that. if you're a Democrat, you must believe this.
Then if you're a Republican, you clearly mean that then. So all these identities carry some sort of mental burden, physical burden. So I just started shedding them. So who am
I?
Art Blanchford: And what did you come to?
Vince Fowlers: right away, I was like, I am 100 percent man. I am a, definitely a husband. Even if you take that away from me, I was a husband.
I can still hold onto that. Even if my wife were to unfortunately pass. I stopped saying a lot of things. I shed a whole bunch of identities that no longer served me. I didn't even say I was an athlete for a number of years, because you could take that away from me. And I didn't know how to process it.
If you did, okay. If you weren't that, then you had a hard time with who you are. Yeah, I am a rugby player, but then I wasn't playing rugby anymore. So then I was really struggling with the fact that I can't play rugby because I'm focusing on my business and my parenting. So I can't really say I'm a rugby player.
It was really problematic. so yes to a husband, yes to a man, yes to a father. I'll come back to this part. I'm a Canadian. I really struggle with that. So I come back to that. but the rest is, I am curious. You can never take that away from me. I am loving. I am assertive. I am compassionate.
You can't take that No matter what my circumstances are, you can never take the right, you could
Art Blanchford: be in prison, you could be locked up, you could have your limbs cut off, would still have those things.
Vince Fowlers: they still have their own slightly secret enemies, like the enemy of compassion is condemnation.
The enemy of curiosity is convinced. So. when people are convinced that this is an issue and that person needs to be condemned and canceled, like that's the enemy of curiosity and compassion.
Art Blanchford: But it depends how you hold that too. It depends. Like if you are in a place of, okay, I am compassion, but without judgment and without condemnation, then you don't have the, I mean, then the condemnation isn't there.
Vince Fowlers: There's a beautiful saying that compassion and empathy doesn't imply endorsement. Right. Absolutely. And so I can be very compassionate and empathetic for someone who has done a horrible crime, breaking and driving and killed a family in a car. That person has a responsibility.
death is their fault and there's a responsibility to the legal and justice system to absolutely deal with that. But I'm not the judge and I'm not the jury. I can be very compassionate that both the driver and the family are going to be impacted for the rest of their. Yeah. And quite
Art Blanchford: frankly, how many things like that could we say for ourselves there before the grace of God go I, did you ever have a beer and drive?
Right? I did. So it's not excusing it. They're still responsible. They're still guilty, but it's not. Making myself superior to them, I can imagine what it would be like to be in their shoes.
Vince Fowlers: So coming back to this, I am Canadian. My mother's born in the United States, Washington, Spokane, Washington, specifically.
My father, his parents had immigrated from England to Montreal. So he's first generation Canadian. Canadian from my mother's side. I'm first generation Canadian, and I struggle with Canada because I don't believe we know who we are identify largely by who we are not. You're not Americans. We're not Americans and we're not British.
We still want the keys to the house though, right? We still actually want access to the fridge. Still want to lay on the couch every now and then. where some red surge, we moved out, we were born in 1867. We moved out of the house in 1982. We're only 42 years old as a nation. Truly right.
Right. We're a very immature nation literally. And we identify largely by who we are not say we are multicultural. to any listener, Canadian or American, just go into New York for an hour, just one hour, count all the nationalities you see that live in New York. Yeah, definitely rivals
Art Blanchford: Toronto or something like that, right?
that's not an identity.
Vince Fowlers: That might be something we value. Yeah, maybe a value or a reality.
Art Blanchford: But
Vince Fowlers: might be a reality. we don't have to go deep on this, when I see, Canada needs a solution. Let's use a Canadian military cause I'm very familiar with it. We need a solution.
It was the early nineties and we were getting rid of a particular vehicle. It's basically a, five quarter ton Chevy pickup so we're going to get rid of it and bring in something new. Well, the Americans had already built and developed and produced and battle tested the Humvee. Why didn't we just go buy a bunch of those instead?
Because you're not American because we're not American. If that solution was cooked and baked in the United States. Therefore we made something of our own. And the biggest useless POS you could ever imagine. And that's just one of many, many examples where Canada wanted to invent their own solution.
All right. So, I do struggle with that identity because what does it mean?
Art Blanchford: well, in the end of the day, our highest identity is human being. I introduced you at the beginning and that's much higher than American or Canadian or Chinese or Russian or Ukrainian. Right? and that's not popular to say right now in a lot of places as we go back toward nationalism.
but it's again, countries in general require enemies as well, right? And they have a dogma and theyI've lived all over the place and it's, interesting. The things that I thought were sancrosanct. Before I live somewhere else and then realize that they don't have those things or they have other things that I thought were evil and it still works.
Right. And so it's a human being is, the highest level of club, if you will, everything else can be for fun. If you want to, you know, you're a sports team. Okay, great. You belong to a team because you like certain sports team. Great. Have fun with that, but don't confuse it with who you are,
Vince Fowlers: Adam grant has this great episode where he talks about the athletic rivalry, the sports rival between Boston and New York, right between the Yankees and the Red Sox.
and I think that there's a lot of fun in all that, but the data got into like the biases got even deeper and deeper into, well, if you're a Red Sox fan, I'm not sure I can hire you.
Art Blanchford: Right.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah. You're going to
Art Blanchford: steal from me or
Vince Fowlers: yeah. Right. so anyways, back to your original question was, I got to know who I am, who am I, and to know that my identities are flexible, I can adjust them, I can change them in the context of, I can nuance them.
I'm going to be very clear when I say that, because as unpopular as this might sound, I'm not talking about genetics here and I, we don't need to have that discussion. But I'm saying that when I say my identities are flexible. I can nuance it means to be a veteran in the military.
I really struggled with that identity back to the fraudulent narrative that came with it. and so I can now say, yeah, I served in the military. and on paper, I select, I am a veteran because I have certain benefits to that, but it's really, it's loosely held.
Art Blanchford: Yeah.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah. It's not
Art Blanchford: an identity. It doesn't
Vince Fowlers: define who you are.
It doesn't define me. And what I do is not who I am as well.
Art Blanchford: Yeah.
Vince Fowlers: So that's where the biggest piece of work has done. And the impact of that has been way more self compassion and much more compassion of others regardless. Exactly. Cause
Art Blanchford: that automatically translates. And again, what we talked about earlier on, if you start with the self, then you have something to give from,
Vince Fowlers: if a client would be late for a call.
Old Vince was, you're not taking this very seriously. I was here on time, but if I was late for a call, I was very petrified that they would think I'm not taking them seriously. So now when a client says, Hey, whether they let me know they're late or not, eventually they say, Oh my goodness, missed this.
I said,
Art Blanchford: Hey,
Vince Fowlers: no judgment. It is what it is. When do we reschedule?
Art Blanchford: Yeah,
Vince Fowlers: yeah, and I'll take it personally. I always take it personally.
Art Blanchford: I don't think I'm important, you know, and I get into all this tailspin, yeah, today I was meeting at a coachy client at the park for a hike and I was doing my run before, I left a little bit late and I had a very, but this was a quality session.
So I had very specific times and, they called. Well, I got there, cut mine short to be there on time and then they called, Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm running 10 minutes late. I'm like, Oh, thank you. That's perfect. I can finish my run. And they were like, what? I mean, but that's the way I felt. I was really like, Oh, that's awesome.
I can finish my run before we go for our coaching hike,
Vince Fowlers: Previous client calls that the gift of time. Yeah. were given the gift of time and yeah, you can, finish your run. I can grab a snack, whatever it might be.
Art Blanchford: and I used to judge myself so harshly, I mean, because I was workaholic and one of the things we're called to do is I call it time stuffing.
So I always try to do something else. So I was habitually late. And I would beat myself up so bad and I would stress and I would run red lights and drive fast, which none of that I do anymore. But here's the thing. It can be released just like that. So now, as soon as I know I'm going to be late, even if it's way out from what the event is, I just text the person, let them know, Hey, I'm going to be there at 1137 instead of 1130.
And all of a sudden all the stress is gone. And then I can be back on time. I mean, that it's that simple. Then they can decide what they want to do with that time that I've given them, if you will. And if they have a hard stop at the end, I understand. Now that's on me that I lost seven minutes of time together, but changes the whole thing and puts me back in integrity just by acknowledging the new truth, whatever it is.
that's really well said,
Vince Fowlers: I hope people who listened to that rewind the last minute and relisten to that because it's important and it doesn't mean you don't care. No, not at all. It's a lot better than rushing
Art Blanchford: and then making them wait and wonder if it's a loved one, they're wondering if you're okay and all this stuff, right?
Vince Fowlers: In fact, it's proof that you do care. Because you informed them, right? Right. and then the second impact, first was, Hey, here's who I am. the second
Art Blanchford: part and just as important who you are not and who I'm not. I know that sound. I never said that before, but I think that's so important. also who you are not.
Yeah, I didn't have anything that can be taken away from you. And I never heard this before from you, Vince, but it's really true. Anything that can be taken away from you, you are not.
Vince Fowlers: Yeah. I've seen professional athletes really struggle post play because they don't know who they are anymore.
they were a franchise player of X, Y, Z team X, Y, Z with
Art Blanchford: all the adulation and money and fame and purpose and intensity and everything that came with that
Vince Fowlers: 30 year members of the military or the police service or what have you, or teaching, there's a very.
Constructive and deconstructive identity that comes with those with, yeah. I am a teacher,
Art Blanchford: I am a
Vince Fowlers: first responder. I am a complete with a mantra of you can take the man outta the infantry, but you can't take the infantry outta the man. Right. So, okay. , how is that useful? Yeah, It's so important to know who we are important to know who we are not knowing that we get to drive meaning for the world around us that further to that was just, I was much more loving and kind and like I fell back in love with my wife, not that we had any issues leading up to this, but just, she's truly my best friend.
She's been there in the center, way more compassionate past relationships and with
Art Blanchford: that love, falling back in love with your wife. Did you notice? Consciously at all of falling in love with yourself also before that or in line with that.
Vince Fowlers: Yes. Cause again, knowing who I am means this is me. I love me. Right.
Right. There's a psychologist who he wrote a book, the 400 pound male stripper. His name is Derek Shirley. And when he was, what a title when he was going through it, right. When he was going through university. Yeah. He was doing his, academics to get his provisional psychology and all that he did a thing on how the act of journaling is therapeutic and this and that.
So he was 400 pounds, so he would, okay, fine. I'm hungry. I want. Chicago mix popcorn. I can have that right after I journal for X amount of time, like what's going on. You're hungry. Okay. Why, why are you hungry? Why this, why that snack or whatever? And his words, he journaled off 200 pounds, right? So he brought awareness.
To
Art Blanchford: what he was feeling.
Vince Fowlers: And he asked me this question one day and he says, can you take your clothes off, prior to getting into the shower or coming out of the shower? before you put your clothes back on, can you look in the mirror and say, Hey, you, I see you. I love you. No. Are you weird?
Like, and he, very gently pressed. Yeah. Very gently pressed my ideas yes, there's things about me I'd love to change. I wish I was a little thinner here, a little bigger there, wider, you know, I'm already wide shoulders in certain ways, but I don't have these love handles now.
It's like, I don't hate myself anymore,
Art Blanchford: but
Vince Fowlers: I can say, that's me. I love me. I'm alive. I'm doing life. And yeah, they could be in my mind, I guess they could be smaller, but it doesn't define who I am. And that's, the struggle. No, that's right. More tiny little insight to my struggle in the past.
So this self love is critical, I believe.
Art Blanchford: Absolutely. is there anything looking back on that transition? So that was 2019. So that's some distance away, five years away now. Is there anything that you would change? Looking back on that transition that you went through, would you have chosen not to have coffee?
With that guy. No,
Vince Fowlers: there was a couple other things like in the same time My wife had got me ancestry dna test as a sort of a shits and giggles gift Which is watch out when you do the shits and giggles gift watch out So it led to the learning that my daughter in my first marriage ultimately wasn't mine that my father wasn't my father and so All of these things were in, it was like one big orchestra of mental soup that really forced me to rediscover who I was.
So these are all converging storms, shall we say? I've been asked this question a number of times, would you change anything? Would you want to put, what, you know, back in a box? Nope. Cause I love where I am today in my life and I wouldn't have got here. Had it not gone through those experiences.
Art Blanchford: All right. what do you think your life would look like if you hadn't gone through it? If you hadn't had coffee with that guy that day, what would your life look like today? Five years on? I think
Vince Fowlers: it would have, probable I'd still be married, but it would be very unhealthy. I would continue to numb my pain with more activity, which would mean more time away from family.
I know for a fact it would not have the depth of a relationship I have with my wife and my kids. Children who are 14 now and 16. Yeah. Critical time. my career would not be thriving. A hundred percent. Like once I got healthy, my business got healthy. Right.
Interesting. Interesting. I spoke to a gentleman who used to work with Simon Sinek's team and I called him up, and I said, we've become friends. We actually met on Twitter. 1 of the most useful experiences on Twitter to this date. It might be the only 1, but at any rate, I just said, Hey, you know, I've noticed that, read his book multiple times start with why, but there was no measurable result.
Maybe more ideal clients, but there's no measurable result in the number of clients and the profitability and all these other things. Is it possible if we don't know who we are, then why we do what we do has less impact. He doesn't even skip a beat and he goes a hundred percent. Correct. Okay. So. His name is David Meade and, we've been, acquaintances and friends for early days of the Simon company they've since separated a number of years ago.
But David is just a wonderful human. He knows that content like the back of his hand, right? Like the Pope knows the Bible. So at any rate, that's the probably the best way to articulate and explain why my, career has beginning to thrive not. I mean, yes, I have these historical reps and all these other experiences, but I am directly translated sitting in
Art Blanchford: that presence and power being able to bring all of that available to serve your clients.
Vince Fowlers: So, but if I look at any particular CEO who's struggling with their business in any fashion, whether it's financial or team, culture, leadership, whatever it might be, I always go back to, okay, so who are you then? like, who is this company? Who are the people here? Like, who are you? Right.
And as soon as I start to hear ambiguity. vagueness, clinging to title that heavy in rules, dogma, and enemy. I'm like, okay, so got some work to do.
Art Blanchford: And how do you help them to discover who they are, especially in a business sense? Cause that's a very fundamental. It's much broader than just business.
Vince Fowlers: there's a series of questions, you know, where are you, where are you going? Why does it matter to you? I think the more times we ask someone like, why does this matter to you? A lot of disclosure comes out,
Art Blanchford: right? Cause if I just say, who are you? I've learned that that question.
Vince Fowlers: Well, what do you mean? Yeah. It's very
Art Blanchford: hard to answer.
Vince Fowlers: It's very hard to answer. If I say almost impossible to answer, actually. Yeah. It's really difficult question to respond to. So it's like, okay, so here you are. How'd you get here? Where are you going and most importantly, I don't mean for you to justify when I ask why, but like, why does it matter to you?
justify it in all the positive ways. what about this is meaningful to you? Victor Frankl and Man Search for Meaning. Like, tell me about the meaning behind this. Right. And they start to disclose a lot of I am language. So I track, you've said I am blank, or this phrase, I am phrase, a number of times.
Can we talk about that? Is this really who you are? And often they're not even aware of it.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. And it could be that it is who they are. And it could be, it's a pattern that's keeping them stuck. I am depressed. I am whatever. Right.
Vince Fowlers: You kept saying, I am depressed. that all of you or just some of you?
Right. Right. Is that a feeling or is that a part? Right. Or is it really who you are?
Art Blanchford: No, it's not. But yeah, to dig into that. Yeah. Interesting.
Vince Fowlers: they'll say things like, I've always been a tradesman. Who am I, if I'm not a tradesman? That's a great question. Can we explore that?
And so all of a sudden it opens up new opportunities because they realize what they do is not who they are and what's possible. all of a sudden could be month of work, right? Or even, I mean, it was a year, , there's some breakthroughs there that's why it's performance coach, helping others exercise the courage to pursue life.
That's meaningful to them. you know, that's my why the curator and explorer of wisdom past and present so that others exercise the courage to pursue life that's meaningful to them. But if they don't know who they are, then what's
Art Blanchford: meaningful to them? Yeah. Then how can you know what's meaningful?
Yeah. So beautiful. I love that. so if we sum up, like, if you hadn't had this transition, you definitely would have worse relationships and worse business and not the sense of knowing who you are. And those are pretty powerful things. And I guess why it's, that's , the most important transition that you feel you have made.
Vince Fowlers: I had a really destructive narrative and it was just getting worse. So, it's possible. I might not even be here. I don't say that lightly. I don't. Yeah, and I understand. Yeah. It's not. For emphasis. we had this discussion one time, my therapist and I, and we were talking about, 'cause a repeated question before I check in to any, therapy session is, there's a variety of questions I always have to answer before a therapy session.
One of 'em is suicide. you know, suicide thought. Yeah. Suicide ideation. So we learned about the difference between ideation and contemplation. Yeah. Suicidal ideation, , I was thinking about it, versus planning it, right? And it was more like a math problem. I couldn't figure out how to exit the planet without hurting my wife, my children, the few people I deeply cared about.
Ithat was a math problem. I couldn't solve. that was problematic in one way, because I knew I was, I felt really stuck. I couldn't exit because I didn't know how to do that, causing pain, but life was. incredibly painful and I worked over time to hide it. Right.
Art Blanchford: And I think Pretending I'm
Vince Fowlers: okay, as Robin Williams says, people don't pretend to be sick, they pretend to be okay.
That's right.
Art Blanchford: That's right. And how many people, I'm going to say that, you know, sort of look like you and me, middle aged men. How many of us are pretending to be okay because we don't feel it's safe to say anything that's not per the norm of our group. Right. Or the way that we see ourselves or there are the false identity that we have.
And, the results are catastrophic because it's not so far. Like when I was listening to you, you're saying I couldn't quite figure out the math problem of, I don't want to cause pain to those that I really love the most. But the next sentence was, but I was in so much pain myself. So the math problem is only.
That your pain increases at some point your pain becomes bigger than the pain you would be causing in your own mind, than your pain you'd be causing your loved ones. That's all it takes. that distance can be very short and we don't know.
Vince Fowlers: And when matter and hope disappear, evaporate, it's over.
Yeah. Someone once said, I wish they, you know, a particular person, celebrity, I think they were a musician within the last few years had taken their life. and a person I know said, Oh, I wish they had the courage to ask for help. I was really frustrated with that. I said, the word courage is not even in their vocabulary.
Yeah. they're in so much despair and pain. and I asked like, have you ever, ever in your life ever had. Such a moment, a period of your life where you were, Oh, I've never felt like that. That's why you don't understand. And that's why you
Art Blanchford: said what you said. Yeah, that's right. That's right. I mean that, I lost my Cousin's husband this year to suicide.
And, my first thing was really anger. and it's not really maybe useful, but anger at society as a whole, that we live in a place where it's not safe for people to speak up, when I started talking about just simple things, not even about suicide, but just talking about, I'm not sure I'm really fulfilled in my job in big corporate settings at dinner, but even half of the table that looked at me as scans on the way, walking back to the hotel after dinner.
Hey, can we talk about that? Yeah. Right. Cause there's so many people feeling the same way, but it's forbidden to talk about. And as long as it's kept in the dark. Right. Darkness can happen, right? Do
Vince Fowlers: you think that it might be harder to be a man today than it has been in the past? I know that's a big, big question, but do you see that men are struggling more?
Men are
Art Blanchford: definitely struggling because of the isolation and because of our changing roles, roles used to be, even if there was a lot of misogyny and a lot of other stuff that wasn't great, the role was a little bit more clear. Money we had to provide, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now women make, make, they can make just money just fine without us.
The same economics. and we're also sort of facing, like realizing that we're also not just a provider and not, like we also have emotions, believe it or not. but we don't know how to talk about those. And so it's, confusing and complicated and especially. We're living a lot longer and we're living healthy a lot longer.
So there's more and more of us that get to a point where we don't have to make more money, which has been primarily what, our program is, especially in North America, our program is make money. You're a guy go make money, provide for your family and not. Provide for your family overall, provide for your family by making money and paying the bills.
That's how you provide for your family. Right? So now there's other ways of providing for family. Now we have enough money and then it's very, it's complicated. Then what are we about? how are we going to serve? What's our purpose? and men do like to fix shit, you that's why women get so tired of us.
Sometimes I just want to vent and we want to fix it. What is it that we're fixing? it's never been okay to talk about ourselves and say, Hey, like for a guy to talk about, I need to love myself like 30 years ago. You know what, there's nothing quicker to get kicked out of the room than to do that.
Vince Fowlers: You must be a hippie. You must be smoking your breakfast. You must be, you must be, you know, opinion, opinion, judgment, judgment.
Art Blanchford: And while I might agree that that might be important, I'm going to look around and make sure nobody heard me talking to you. And I'm not going to talk to you. And again, cause I might get kicked out of the group.
Vince Fowlers: Some of my clients. Could never work a day again for the rest of their life. they've accumulated enough, monetary wealth, and possession, home, car, whatever, and yet struggle with purpose.
Art Blanchford: Of course.
Vince Fowlers: like, okay, I worked all this to get here. Here I am, like, when is enough enough?
And we have these questions. so what's meaningful to you? And for some, it's a really difficult question to answer because they followed this path. if they're in their forties, many of my clients are not all, but, um, a real struggle. guy was like, need to make more.
Okay. Why? Blah, blah, blah, blah. It was, yeah, I was just offered 29 million to my business. I mean, I'd never have to work again for the rest of my life. Okay. So why didn't you just sell? I don't know. I've always been X Men, you know, X insert label title. And so this is some of the work we do is okay. Can we unpack that a little bit?
from my experience, it's been a Very. Uncomfortable place to be because when I look around, I don't see places that are safe to have this discussion.
Art Blanchford: No. And you're right. And they're right. And they're doing it. That's what my purpose is now, then. So I have this midlife transition mastery groups.
That's exactly for that. It's a place where guys, it's open to women too, but so far it's just guys because guys are in this more existential crisis, I think, but it's guys that have. Okay. I've, checked the boxes here. I am. I've done the things I feel like. I was supposed to do, but I feel isolated.
I don't feel purpose. I don't feel passionate about my life. I'm seeing life in gray, not in color. And where is a safe place to talk about it? So that's why I have these groups where we get together and talk about it and talk about how to manage a transition.
Vince Fowlers: This is what I mean about men suffering in silence, whether it's a win or a loss, know, in athletics, we win and lose in a very public arena, whether it's a community sports field or professional athletics, the Stanley cup's going on right now, very public arena, Oilers are down to nothing, two games to zero against Tampa.
And so that, win loss is very in the public eye. Caitlin Clark didn't get selected for the women's national basketball Olympic team. In the United States, very, very public, right? But for the CEO, man or woman, all that stuff's done over text and email, phone call in their cubicle, in their car. And so whether it's a celebration or frustration, it's often alone.
Like who do I tell that I just earned a 50 million contract over the next five years. Right. Who's going to listen to me say that and, Oh, no, life must be hard for you. Actually it is. Cause I don't have the labor. I don't have the space. I don't have this. I don't have that.
Right. I mean, it's good.
Art Blanchford: Exactly. and the wins and losses may be things that are not even obvious. They're not even something you can count score. Like I'm sitting in my office and I have everything I should have. And it's eight o'clock at night because I feel too uncomfortable to go home.
Not because I have to stay here and do something. That's the lie. I might tell myself, but because I'm too uncomfortable to go home. And that's definitely a loss, but who do you tell that to? Right. who's going to feel bad for me. I'm sitting in my corner office, CEO of this company. Who's going to understand my situation? Right. I'm alone. And even that type of loss, which is not only you're suffering it by yourself, but you can't even imagine that somebody else could relate to it. So you can't, there's no one to share.
Vince Fowlers: What's the search term on Google for that? I don't know.
Right. Yeah. I have no idea. Yeah. How do you connect?
Art Blanchford: the surgeon general of the United States now has said, the loneliness is our biggest health concern. 58, if I remember right, 58 percent of men over 50 in the United States define themselves as extremely lonely being that they don't have one person they could call at two o'clock morning in a crisis, in an emotional crisis.
Right. I mean, can you imagine it's really, I was talking to a friend today whose son is 34. And gratefully they're having the conversation, but he's like that. And I feel so alone. You know, I work from home, I order everything on Amazon or DoorDash and it's me and my daughter, and that's great, but that's it, right?
He has a four year old daughter. He's single dad. Right. And so it is really, anything that we can do to help people come home to themselves and then connect with each other after coming home with themselves, learning to love themselves, I think is incredibly valuable. And it's what I'm about in the second half of my life in transition, if you will.
Vince Fowlers: love it. The world needs more of you in it. More people like, yeah, I think we're on the same page here. And one more question for you. Yeah.
Art Blanchford: please. Because you obviously have a lot of wisdom. And like you said, we're on the same page. If you could give one tool, one Piece of advice, one actionable thing that could help our listeners that are feeling lonely, are feeling disconnected, are not sure who they are.
What would that be? Like something that they could carry away. There's a lot of good conversation in here. There's a lot of good advice, but if they're going to take one thing here at the end of the podcast. that they actually can take action on right now. What would that be?
Vince Fowlers: Just grab pen and paper, you can do it on a computer if you want, but I think analog is probably better.
So just grab a pen and paper and just write down I am and whatever flows after that might be a word, it might be a phrase, and just, you know, Do a brain dump revisit it throughout the week. Just keep adding to it when something pops up. You can even empower people around us, spouse, a child, friend, whatever.
Just to do the same thing. To either do the same thing or, Hey, I'm doing this exercise. And if you hear me say, I am Blank. Can you just, if I don't notice it, can you just tell me I said that I'm collecting, I'm doing. Right. Right.
Art Blanchford: Oh, that's cool.
Vince Fowlers: And treat it like an experiment, not like a fix to something.
Art Blanchford: Right. Right. Take it with curiosity. Process. Get a journal. I got a new journal here that I haven't started writing in yet. I'm going to pick it up and I'm going to follow this advice. And just
Vince Fowlers: treat it like an experiment.
Art Blanchford: I am just out of curiosity. I am in whatever stream of consciousness, whatever comes out.
Vince Fowlers: Step two is then to look at that and start looking for patterns. the first pattern might be, is this a past identity showing up in the present? Like I'm a veteran or, I am divorced. I'm married, but I was divorced twice. So, what comes up? is there a, pattern to a past experience being as I am, is there a present, is there a future identity here?
These are all identities, conscious or subconscious. These are actually all identities and it's what codes our mental operating system. we have this rewritable mental operating system, much like a CD ROM, so to speak. Google it if you don't know what that is. Right. and then that's right.
A lot of people don't know what a CD ROM is. Yeah. I just aged myself. I'm 54. So it's a good age. It's a beautiful thing. So, now we have this list. Now we have, these are past, present, and potentially future. I had zero future when I did this initially for myself, no future, therefore no forward action.
Wow. So lots of living in the past and then look for, Is there rules? Is there dogma? Is there an enemy to this, I am statement then which ones do we want to keep? Which ones do we want to let go of? from there, maybe share the experiment with someone you care about and who cares about you and just have a discussion about it.
I am conserved. I typically vote conservative, but that doesn't mean I don't agree with some of the other policies that the other administration cook up. Okay. Right. That's some really good ideas. So who I vote for is not who I am
Art Blanchford: right now. That's great. That's beautiful. Which ones
Vince Fowlers: do we want to let go of?
Because there is a very much an emotional of weight that comes with, because it requires energy to live it out. Yeah. And I had no more, in the words of Mark Manson had no more fucks to give. Right. yeah, I had all these identities that, conscious, unconsciously were weighing me down.
from strength to strength.
It's on the list. I see. I've seen a couple of his podcast as a guest and I really like his work. He came to mind as you were telling me about yours.
Art Blanchford: He talks about not just the transition, but he talks about that. A big part of his growing up, his transition was letting go of his identities.
Right. and he had to actively like let go of all this, you know, he was CEO of a conservative think tank in DC. Right. That comes with a lot of identities. Sure does. As a musician, that comes with a lot of identities.
Vince Fowlers: Right. And for anybody ex military or a backpacker, think of a rucksack on our back and every identity is a rock.
Right. And it doesn't matter, they us down. Yeah. Which one? Death
Art Blanchford: without Cuts. Yeah, no doubt. that's beautiful. , and here I thought we would talk about the ultra marathons and stuff, but we talked about stuff that's more important. I really appreciate it. I love the wild, I love backpacking and I love the ultra marathons and everything else too.
But, what we talked about I think is even more meaningful, and I really, I really appreciate it. I appreciate. Your vulnerability and you, being in the open about it and not keeping it in the dark with what's going on with you and trying to help other people along that way, Vince, it's really a beautiful thing.
Where can people find out more about you? If they're curious about what you're doing and your business and how you're helping other people, where can they find out more about you, Vince? Vince
Vince Fowlers: Fowler. ca is a horribly outdated website. However, it exists and that is me. Vince Fowler. com is a photographer in Savage, Minnesota.
So clearly we're not the same people. he's an exceptional photographer. Okay. so Vince Fowler. ca. I do preside in Canada. most of my work is in the United States. I spend a lot of time down there. I love there. and LinkedIn. So little trick if anybody does want to connect on LinkedIn, the automatic default button says follow, just hit the more button next to it.
And it will be connect and then add a personal invite to, and just say, Hey, I heard you on arts podcast. Just give it that content. I'm going to ask anyways. Hey, how did you hear about me? if you want to take it a step further, just say, Hey, I, heard you on arts podcast and could we discuss, I'll respond to everybody, that's because I'm not that famous and it's easy to respond to five people.
I will always make the time speak and Chip Conley who worked with Airbnb and now owns, yes, you're very familiar with, Chip Conley's work. Yes. He responds to every, email he ever gets. He defers a lot. he never does not respond.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. I've had some good conversations with Chip.
He's a really interesting guy. So I really appreciate it. I appreciate Vince, the work that you're doing and the heart that you bring to it. And I really appreciate you being with me today. I've learned a lot and it was really a pleasure to get to know you.
Vince Fowlers: This was a conversation. And I've really enjoyed that.
It was no slight to any previous podcast I've ever been on. But the only thing missing was a coffee table. And, well, you know, for
Art Blanchford: episode two, could come here. Cause I just heard from one of my first live podcast guests. He said, I heard. Not the first one that I did my first guest on the podcast.
He said, I just listened to your first face to face one, which I record right over here in my basement on the farm table. And he said, it's just that much deeper and more connected more real. So yeah, we can have a cup of coffee and sit on the farm table out there on the round two of Vince Fowler, our Blanchford conversation.
That'd be great.
Vince Fowlers: I have a hunch that's more possible and probable than not. Well,
Art Blanchford: I'm,
Vince Fowlers: good for it. If you happen to be in Nashville next week, we'll do another episode Vince. I'd love to do that. So let me know when you're down here. I've really enjoyed this conversation.
Art Blanchford: Thank you. And keep up the good, meaningful, purposeful work at being who you are and helping others to be who they are. Thank you, Art. Thank you a lot. Take care.