In this episode of Life in Transition, we delve into Courtney’s incredible journey through significant life changes. From how the COVID-19 pandemic impacted her career to the challenges of reconnecting with her book and speaking engagements, Courtney discusses it all.
Imagine overcoming a lifelong fear of flying by stepping into the cockpit of an airplane. For Courtney Schoch, this wasn’t just a bold move but the beginning of a transformative journey that would redefine her life.
Struggling with a stagnant career and an unfulfilling marriage, Courtney reached a turning point when she discovered a coupon for an introductory flight lesson. Despite her fear, she embraced the challenge, overcoming her limitations and opening doors to new possibilities.
In this episode of Life in Transition, we delve into Courtney’s incredible journey through significant life changes. From how the COVID-19 pandemic impacted her career to the challenges of reconnecting with her book and speaking engagements, Courtney discusses it all.
She highlights the significance of community, the power of overcoming fears, and the importance of asking better questions for personal growth throughout her journey.
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Note: We use AI transcription so there may be some inaccuracies
Art Blanchford: Welcome back to life in transition podcast. I'm really excited to have my friend Courtney shock with me today. Courtney is an advocate for the underdog whose journey is about owning her story and not letting it own her. She also happens to be the founder of a nonprofit. A successful public speaker, author, athlete, and an airline pilot.
So Courtney, welcome so much to life in transition podcast.
Courtney Schoch: Thank you for having me. I heard I'm excited to be here.
Art Blanchford: Yeah, I am very excited to have you. we were talking about this, on the discovery call, we've known each other for a few years and your story has fascinated me from the beginning.
I have a passion for athletics, which I know you do as well, and that passion for service. and I also, came up. a difficult way, which you have as well. So I'm really curious with your life, which has been a very inspirational story to me already. What would you consider to be one of the most important or difficult or transformational transitions that you've been through in your life?
Courtney Schoch: I've had several, as I'm sure everyone has, but the one that sticks out the most is when I was in my mid twenties and, I was bartending. I have two young children. I was in a fairly unfulfilled marriage and we had no money and I was looking for something to do, something to do with the children. And I was going through the entertainment book, that old coupon book, you know, that, right,
Art Blanchford: right, right.
That like the fundraiser book from schools. Yeah, yeah,
Courtney Schoch: exactly. And I was flipping through and I found coupon essentially for an introductory flight lesson at our local airport. And what, Struck me and made me pause for a minute is I have always been afraid of flying. So even though I'd been on the back of a plane, right?
Like the passenger, to be honest, I was one of those double for a dollar. I don't know if they still have those, but I'd have to have a couple of drinks to get on the black and sit in the back and I saw this introductory flight and I thought, I've got such a fear of it.
What if I just. Go to the local airport, take this 30 minute flight lesson and just kind of check the box, like do something really courageous. Cause I just felt like there was more to life and I was just sort of wasting a little bit of my time. So I took that coupon, like I said, we have no money. So I rolled up quarters and I went to the local flight school like a week later and took an introductory flight lesson.
It was a female flight instructor. Her name was Catherine and I loved it. I fell in love with it. thought it was the coolest thing. It really surprised me, but as I was driving home and I went home to tell my husband, I said, Hey, I found something that was really neat. I didn't want to do it recreationally.
I think I could take some flight lessons and essentially art. He told me we didn't have the money. we didn't have the time. And pretty much I wasn't intelligent enough to do that, to apply. And so that just was really a. Pivotal point in my life. Like something just snapped in my brain where I said, you know what, I'm going to make this happen no matter what it takes.
And I did, I started taking flying lessons. I picked up extra bartending hours. I started doing everything that I could and that ended up changing my whole life trajectory. And it was a huge transformative time in my life. Very painful, very soul searching, doubts in my mind, but I just felt like there, I had to keep going and keep moving forward and it's been incredible and, needless to say, ended up divorcing.
The man who told me I wasn't good enough, essentially, and, just really taking off in a whole nother direction. And that's the most transformative moment, that I can think about that had the biggest impact in my life.
Art Blanchford: Awesome. So I have a couple of questions that come up for me right away there.
First one is if you take it back, like you were afraid of getting on a plane. And then you showed up to fly one. Like now you're sitting in the seat next to the instructor and probably a two person Cessna, if I had to guess.
Courtney Schoch: that's right. Is that 150?
Art Blanchford: Right. Right. what happened to your fear?
So you're sitting in that, cause you had this fear of you've been getting on the back of a plane. And now you're sitting in this little tiny tin box next to somebody else. And there's only two of you. What was going on with your fear at the time?
Courtney Schoch: So my fear. I pushed shoved it in the backseat and I said, okay, I'm the 1 who's got to take control of that.
I have spent 50, which was a lot of money to me. Like, I have put 50 on the line. I'm here. I'm in the moment. There are no redos. this woman's looking at me like the, the. Planes here and all the sounds of a small airport. It was for an airport in Cleveland, Ohio, and the lake is in the background.
It was just, well, it was in October and something just said, just. Get in, take one step at a time and see how you do. And I literally just took one action at a time, no matter how small it was, open the plane door, which I didn't even know how to do. She had to come around and do it for me.
so really, I just one step at a time, just push that fear down.
Art Blanchford: Okay. So it wasn't really a thing as you were going forward there. I mean, it didn't show. Yeah. Great. the next question I have is like, you said, this is just something that I have to do. Right. you had this sense, like, even after your husband said, no, we don't have the money.
You don't have the time and you're not capable to do it. you said, well, I felt this is something that I have to do. What does that feel like? Like, how do you know when it's something that you have to do?
Courtney Schoch: To me, it felt like there was. Some calling something greater that I was just born to do more with my time that I was put on this earth to not just live a mediocre life.
And what I was doing was, in my opinion, Was just mediocre. I knew that there was more in me and I had to get back more. I never want to get to the end of my life and say, man, I wish I really, really would have tried to do something different or did more with it. And so it's just some type of deep feeling like in your heart and in your gut that just says, I'm just meant for more.
Art Blanchford: and I get that. And I resonate with that completely. And how do you know that the pilot or being a, training in flight school, it was the more than something else, there's thousands of paths for more. So that's what I'm curious about. was it that specific feeling that you had, cause I'm guessing I'm putting words in your mouth now, I'm guessing that you had a sense that you were made for more before you saw that coupon.
Courtney Schoch: Oh, absolutely. I just didn't know what, and I was looking for an opportunity. So where are the opportunities? And so many times. I feel as if were so blinded by our self imposed limitations that we don't see that opportunity that may be in front of us. So, for me, it was the coupon flying. I never in a 1M years thought I was going to get to the level that I'm at now.
But I just knew that if I just stepped it up, even just 1 more level, like, I just leveled up a little bit more. That seemed a So did I think, oh man, my entire existence is to go and fly big airplanes. No, it just was, I'm going to try, I'm going to level up a little bit and a little bit more and see where it takes me.
And when I started flying, I just wanted to fly recreationally. I never considered it as a career, but rather it's, you some type of intervention, whatever it is, the universe or God, whatever you believe in. and just kept giving me signs and opportunities. And as I went through, I learned that I needed to open the door to the opportunities and that the challenges that I faced in life were simply opportunities to learn.
That's all they are. And if I kept that mindset, I kept excelling. Don't get me wrong. There are definitely setbacks and challenges, but in order to level up,just had to keep saying, where are the opportunities in this experience?
Art Blanchford: and then flying, like, as you took that first step, first, it was the coupon that you saw in the coupon book, but then there was that feeling coming up inside you when you saw that coupon, there's lots of coupons in that coupon.
Right. But that one spoke to you somehow, and then you had this energy coming up in you and then each step along the way, you kept feeling this energy or excitement or spiritual energy, whatever you want to call it, and you just kept following that as you were going.
Courtney Schoch: Yes, that's right. And I love to be challenged.
I love to learn, mentally too. And so just, I was never great at math or any of these things. So it just, it was all these layers of the challenge that just really excited me.
Art Blanchford: So. If you have that story that you tell yourself that you weren't great at math, then how did you end up in aeronautical school?
Courtney Schoch: Well, that's a whole nother thing. So, so initially, I went for my bachelors, right? So I was doing a lot of online classes. I happened to time it just right online was becoming a thing. And at this point, single mother of 2 flying in an airline, oftentimes bringing my kids with me to work on overnights because I didn't have a babysitter.
And so the online part was. I got my bachelor's degree and as a airline pilot, when I was flying at a regional company, it's not like it was today. We would start 18, 000 a year, which is awful as a first officer. And when you upgraded to captain, which I did three years after I started flying, was maybe 30, 000, huge pay bump.
So what actually propelled me to go into my master's program was. I needed one. I wanted to level up again. But the other part of it is that, Student loans, things like that. I was like, I need student loans to help supplement, to take care of my children, which was really hard and tough, but I was trying to be resourceful.
Art Blanchford: like, I could roll into a master's program, which excites me too, but it served a dual purpose because it helped support me living off of student loans to pay the mortgage in order to provide a stable environment for my children so we wouldn't have to move and things like that. So. it was 2 prong there.
Courtney Schoch: So that, to get back to your question about math, I got to a point where, I took astrophysics in this aeronautical class or aeronautical degree that I got. I had no choice, so I had to be resourceful. I got tutors. I watched videos. I checked out books at the library and I'm still not great at math, but I certainly was able to push through and get it done.
Art Blanchford: Right. But to get a very advanced, level in advanced technology, technical degree, is quite a statement, especially if you feel like you're not good at math. I mean, that's a lot of work and obviously you put into it to get there. That's, quite an accomplishment.
So kudos to you. Congratulations.
Courtney Schoch: Thank you. And to that point, I just want to say that I believe that that's another example of Those self imposed limitations and what we tell ourself. Cause I believe that no matter what the obstacle is, you find a way or you make a way. And that's, just my belief.
Art Blanchford: Right. So how much of that, motivation, if you looked at the decision to go to flight school, how much of the motivation was. Coming from someone saying you couldn't do it and how much of it was coming from, this really lights me up and this is something I really want to do.
Courtney Schoch: it's a very good question, Art.
I would say that the type of childhood that I had growing up, which is very, very challenging and I never had a role model. I think that the desire to be a really great role model for my children or for somebody else. I think that that was really truly the driving force rather had been flying or if it had been an architect designing buildings or whatever it had been.
I think that the desire. To really put in a thousand percent to what I focus on in order to make myself better. Therefore was benefiting my children. I really think that my children were the driving force, not people telling me that I couldn't, which definitely contributed, but I think it was trying to be what I never had.
Courtney Schoch: absolutely. So you said, Hey,
Art Blanchford: I had a really tough don't want my children to have that same situation and the best way I can support them is to be an example, is to be an inspiration. And so I'm going to keep learning and this is something that I like that fell in my path and I'm going to continue on it as a way to be an inspiration level up myself and therefore inspire my children to do the same and be a good example for them.
Courtney Schoch: Yeah, absolutely. And fine. I can't lie. it's an awesome job, you know, right? Right.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. No, I know you love it too. And I think that's a big part of it, but you found a place where all of those things intersect. That's really great. So that was some years ago when you had that tipping point. what was the takeaway?
Like, if you look back now, What was the biggest learning that you had that came out of that?
Courtney Schoch: I just heard someone speak recently. And so I'm gonna take the saying that they said. And they said, It was not to ever let someone name your baby, which means that if you've got some type of passion or dream or whatever is that you take it and you own it and you get to do, you get to name your life,
I think that's the biggest thing, just to sum it up was that own I am. Really cultivate who I want to be and move forward with it. it put in all the energy and effort. And I think that what I've learned is sometimes the best things, they just take time, you've got to plant the seeds and wait for the seeds to sprout,
And I think that's one of the biggest things and not to ever let anybody take that away from you. No, you absolutely, everybody has Their own journey that, they're moving forward with and not to ever question or try and impose your belief system on someone else and really owning your own belief system.
And that's what I learned from it.
Art Blanchford: Okay. And not letting others impose their belief system on you as well to live your own life. Yeah. I've just been diving into recently this, book and research, the five regrets of the dying and the number one regret is exactly that. I regret That I didn't live a life true to myself, but what others expected of me.
Courtney Schoch: It's so true.
Art Blanchford: It's the number one.
Courtney Schoch: I'm going to have to read that book.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. I'll send you the little, I bought a little poster of the five and put it on my mirror just as a good reminder. Right. but that's really great. so that lesson out of that early time in your twenties, that applies to your whole life.
So take us down the journey a little bit farther. Where did you keep applying that? that I'm going to name my baby. I'm going to live the life true to myself. Take us a little farther down the journey. What are some other interesting tipping points, transitions, events in your life that have come from naming your baby, from taking ownership of your life?
Courtney Schoch: Sure. started in the airlines 2008, went through that journey, ended up going to Nicaragua, fell in love with the Nicaraguan people in 2014. And one of those Crazy universe things. I went down on a surfing trip with some girlfriends of mine. I don't surf, but I thought that I would join them down there.
They invited me. They were there for 3 weeks. I went down for 3 days. I went down there. was so challenging. It was nothing like I expected. I'm not sure just ignited this interest in me, this passion. And I ended up coming back down to Nicaragua. I happened to fall in love with someone in Nicaraguan.
that's a whole nother story. That's in my book. I won't get into that.
Art Blanchford: Are your kids grown at this point or did they go with you?
Courtney Schoch: my kids 2014, so they were teenagers and my son was in his twenties. They did not go with me. I still had my home in Cleveland. I was commuting out of Newark, New Jersey.
Okay. And so I would sort of commute from Managua to Newark to Cleveland, and I would make this little triangle, and they were, teenagers, they were doing their own thing, right? Kind of sprouting their wings. I was giving them some space I was still very active in their life.
And I ended up, , when I was in Nicaragua, though, falling in love with the people and wanting to give back to the community somehow. So, the 1st, in the areas that I was staying, no, 1 was really speaking English. So I had to learn Spanish. I did not know Spanish before. So I 1st, myself in Spanish.
And then I opened up a, well, I got my teaching English as a foreign language certificates, through a academy and Leo, Nicaragua. And then I realized that if. The Nicaraguans in certain areas, learned English, they could get jobs in the hospitality industry and significantly improve their quality of life.
I ended up opening up a nonprofit that gave back to communities and stuff that taught English. And that brought me into the running part, which never been a athlete prior to. I guess I was in my late 30s and I had gotten a cancer diagnosis. and it was a curable cancer, but it was still, nonetheless, it's the C word, right?
It's scary, especially,
Art Blanchford: especially at that point. It's
Courtney Schoch: not in my career too. We have to maintain a medical, if anything knocks me out of the game, there's my entire career. And so when I received that phone call, I just started running and I happened to be in the woods. Didn't get too far, quarter of a mile or something, you know, huffing, puffing.
And It made me feel so good and so alive and how I kind of tied this into Nicaragua is I found that I really loved running. It released a lot of stress. It got me into shape, these beautiful people in Nicaragua, like helping them. And I combined the two and I committed to running a marathon on all seven continents to raise funds and awareness for adult literacy.
And so that was a passion, like something to give back to a community, which. Was new for me in the past, I had always been in survival mode, just always trying to make the bills, trying to make things happen. And this was the first time in my life where I was giving back to a community. And I felt like I grew even more, you know, it was incredible.
So, I did that with the nonprofit. I ultimately ended up leaving, Nicaragua in 2018 because of the political unrest with president Ortega. It just became. Unstable, moved back to Cleveland, full time and, I'm a high school dropout, so I've never had told anyone that before I'd got my GED and I dropped out of high school because my parents constantly fighting, I was always refereeing them and I, at a certain point, I was just like, I just school this as an important survivalist.
So I dropped out of school and, got my GED. This was way before flying, right? Did you get your
Art Blanchford: GED at that time when you were 18, 19 or much later? Yeah.
Courtney Schoch: No, no, no. 18, 19. So I think it was in 92 because I had my son in 93. So I was at. Teenage mother, it was very young and I ended up coming back to Cleveland and there was someone who knew my story a little bit, a friend of mine, and we were traveling together and we were in Cleveland Hopkins airport.
And I went to the United club, and there was 1 of the ladies who kind of straighten stuff up and we started talking and she was telling me how she tutors these graduates and how important it is and how impactful it is now. I just left Nicaragua, which I had been giving back to this community and I had no idea what to do.
My entire model of my nonprofit was to run races to help these Nicaraguans. and to teach English at the time to, well, I'm back in Cleveland, people speak English. I don't need to teach English to anybody. And I was a little lost in talking to this woman. Her name was Margo. It made me realize that stories like mine.
Kind of like, where you turn things around might be beneficial. I might be able to be that role model or inspire someone. So she said, would you mind coming to my classroom and talking to my adult learners? And I thought, oh, my gosh, I'm a captain of a small regional airline. If this gets out I dropped out of high school and I'm flying passengers around. Like, how are people going to view me? I, I very much have a lot
Art Blanchford: of fear coming up, a
Courtney Schoch: lot of fear. I had been flying with, military personnel and. All kinds of people, I'd heard all the jokes, and to top it off, not only was I a high school I was also a stripper.
So now I'm going to go and air this stuff. And what if it gets out? And then I realized I almost went back to the same feeling I had with that coupon. But, I'm really afraid of this, so it must mean that I must go do it. it's something that I should go and tackle. I went to this classroom, I spoke to 6 or 7 adult learners bottom line is they loved it.
They're very receptive. Maybe a month later, I get a call from a larger organization that saw a little blurb on me and this local newsletter that this particular organization put out. And then they asked me to be a keynote speaker for a group of nearly a thousand people in San Diego to share my story, Art.
Art Blanchford: So something you'd never shared before and we're really as scared of if it leaked back into your professional world, what that would mean for your career.
Courtney Schoch: Right. And now someone's asking me, go and talk on the West coast to nearly a thousand people, all these different companies and everything as a keynote speaker.
And they were going to pay me a lot of money to do it, which was amazing to me at that, too. They were like, you have an amazing story. And the woman on the phone said, it's very inspiring. As soon as she said that, I thought, wow, I have the ability. Okay. To stand on a stage and if I just get out of my own way and it's not about me Because my life isn't all about me.
It's about giving back if I can just encourage or inspire One or two people that just makes it even more worthwhile, like all those bad experiences I've had in my life. If I can turn that into a positive message, then I've got to do that. So that's what I did. And then from there, I was encouraged to write a book and then COVID hits right when my book hit.
And, yeah, there's a lot here. We could probably have a three hour, conversation, but there's been a lot of opportunities, a lot of transition for sure.
Art Blanchford: If you look back to that point when you decided that you were, I use your words again, you were going to name your baby, you were going to go take those flying lessons, even though it seemed sort of impossible.
You were not supported to do so. And would make things a lot more difficult looking back at this from now. So this is, decades later. what would you tell your younger self? What message would you give at that pivotal point?
Courtney Schoch: The message I would have given myself, I think if I had more of an objective in mind, I would have saved myself a lot of time and struggle.
So if I would have had An objective, and so I'm just throwing spaghetti at the wall, so to speak, and hoping something stuck and sometimes they did. I think if I could just have been a bit more mindful. Across the board with my children, with my family, with myself, and just, I can still have been excited, but just have been a little bit more mindful and, Just had an objective in mind, even if it was just something small is, diving into things and then figuring it out worked really well for me, but I also caused a lot of pain and also, wasn't always present in the way that I feel would have benefited many, many people, including myself.
Art Blanchford: so to listen to the passion, just to feel what energy is coming up in you, but also look a little bit farther out and see.
Where you might want to drive this.
Courtney Schoch: Yeah, sort of, if I could have harnessed my energy a little bit better, you know, put it more of like a,laser beam as opposed to a big swath of light, if I could have been a little bit more focused, I feel like I could have gone a little farther. and that's what I'm trying to do now is just laser it.
Art Blanchford: So I've been listening to count Newport recently, too. He's talking about, deep productivity and, slow work. And he talks about do less things, do them in a sustainable way, do them better. All right. so that's what you're talking about. Maybe having focusing on 1 thing at a time instead of 10,
Courtney Schoch: right?
Because they've proven what that multitasking is. 40 percent less effective now than what they believe. Yeah,
Art Blanchford: much less women are better at it than men, but it's still much less effective than to focus on one thing. Absolutely. Okay. So that would be the thing that you would tell your younger self is to have a little bit more focus when you still follow the energy, but have a little bit more focus that would take you farther than having a diverse focus.
Courtney Schoch: Absolutely. And also, and also just as a side note, if that's who to. Forgive yourself a little bit. We're all going to mess up and we've got to not only forgive others, but we've got to forgive ourself to just, just, just give ourselves a little bit of grace.
Art Blanchford: Right. What comes up for me when you say that is why not forgive yourself completely instead of just a little bit?
Courtney Schoch: That's a good point. Cause I wonder if we say forgive ourself completely, if some. Would feel like that's too large of a task. Just take the smaller steps.
Art Blanchford: Right. Forgive yourself for something. And then maybe later you can forgive yourself for something else. And
Courtney Schoch: yeah. I like the forgive completely.
Art Blanchford: At some point, it'd be nice to quit shooting on ourselves. Right. Quit beating ourselves up. Right. Now that's really great. I'm wondering, Courtney, I'm curious. Like. If you had not chosen to make that transition, if you had not chosen to go to flight school at that point, even though it was against a lot of odds, where do you think your life would be?
How would your life have gone if you had not named your baby at that point?
Courtney Schoch: I think I definitely wouldn't be sitting here speaking with you and your audience. I know that for a fact. I am fairly certain that I would have. I don't know if I would have been sitting here today to be honest with you. I
Art Blanchford: think that you might not be alive.
You mean?
Courtney Schoch: Yeah. I think if. I allowed myself, I could have easily self destructed if I did not have something that I was working towards. and I truly believe that, I mean, I was in a very unhealthy relationship and it's not because of my ex husband or anything like that. I mean, it's work I had to do on me I'm not sure I would have done that work, at least not to this level.
I'm only speculating, but think that my life would have definitely looked very different.
Art Blanchford: So message there is it's really important to follow this energy when you feel this Energy coming up and you're at, you feel this calling to follow that, to let that pull you and not let fear win or let someone else's opinion win, right?
Saying you can't do this. We don't have a way if you should feel something that's really, calling to you then to do that, to make that important to do that. So you don't get stuck in a situation that might end up very differently.
Courtney Schoch: Right? Absolutely. Because if I personally, my personal If you don't do that, then we're going to go back to what we touched on the very beginning of the conversation.
You're going to have these regrets. So
Art Blanchford: right.
Courtney Schoch: So even if you feel this calling to do something, give it a try. At least take those first couple of steps, tear out the coupon, roll up the coins, open the airplane door, just try it. And if it doesn't work for you, You can say, no, thank you and walk away from it, you know?
Yeah.
Art Blanchford: And I think about too, one thing that comes to mind for me right now is that trying things also makes us realize that there's always options. and those of us, and unfortunately I've had some very close to me that end our life early, it's because we don't feel there's any options, right? We feel like we've tried everything, we've done everything, and there's nothing else that we can do to stop the pain, so we exit.
And, I think, doing something, if you follow this call and follow this thing inside you, then doing something, don't think you end up in that space. which is obviously something we want to prevent. It's very heart wrenching.
Courtney Schoch: It's terrible. And sometimes, I'm not a doctor and I understand that there are chemical imbalances and things like that.
have an uncle who had committed suicide when I was younger. So, I am familiar with it and, it's very scary. And I think that 1 thing to keep in mind is that, action creates confidence, just take a step and do something, even if it's just getting on your shoes and getting out your front door.
Art Blanchford: Yeah, absolutely. I've been also, listening to, Phil Stutz, who's a psychiatrist out west, but he's got a documentary on Netflix now called Stutz. And he was on the rich role podcast recently, but he's very different than most therapists because he says, I don't. Ask anybody to believe what I believe, but if they come to see me, they need help.
And then I require that they take the action that I give them to do.
Courtney Schoch: Right.
Art Blanchford: And I never let anybody leave my office without action. Right. And the action is normally it's stuff that you talked about. It's exercise to get sleep. It's talk, to friends, right. but very concrete things.
And he's like, I don't ask you to believe the way I believe in God and these other things. I don't ask you to believe any of that, but I ask you to follow the action and then you'll see for yourself if it works or not, if it doesn't work, fire me. Go get somebody else, but it's very different than a lot of therapy where it's okay.
Tell me what's going on with you, which is also beneficial, but I 100 percent agree with you. It's action. if there's something not going on, right. Then do something about it. All right. Get out in nature, go for a walk, talk to somebody that you trust. All right.
Courtney Schoch: Yeah. Or
put down the bottle, put down the beer, you know, get into an AA meeting, right? Yeah, just do something because to your point, there's always options. And if we can give ourselves an option, then we can allow ourselves to create the path that we want to go down.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. And have the next day.
one other question I'm thinking about, like this big transition that you chose to make when you were in your twenties, how has that affected your relationships? Like the most important relationships in your life now, looking back, how has that affected those?
Courtney Schoch: well, it gave me a bit more confidence to put me in proximity to a, Better peer group, I should say that also made me want to be better.
So I feel like friend level or like just acquaintance level that has definitely improved because it changes the way that I interact with people. There's definitely a level of respect and there's also a level of compassion, and understanding, empathizing with people because everybody's got a story, you know, and we never know what someone's going through.
As far as with my children, my family members, things like that. They had a front row seat, to everything. And I think that it's given them, the ability that they know that they can draw from some of my strength. And when things aren't going their way, if they can take an action, if they can do something, it'll eventually turn around.
that's not to say that my children don't struggle with things because they definitely do. Everybody does. To be human
Art Blanchford: is suffering, right? I mean,
Courtney Schoch: Exactly. and as far as intimate relationships, I just got married in January.
Art Blanchford: Congratulations.
Courtney Schoch: Thank you. Thank you. And we've known each other for quite a while.
And it's by far the healthiest, best relationship that, I've ever been in, despite telling myself I would never get married again, but, it's been wonderful. And there's Always room to grow. So every single day I'm learning how to grow. it's one thing to be. On your own, because I had been divorced, since 2008 and then I had that brief interaction down in Nicaragua and then I'd pretty much been on my own, doing my own thing, thinking I had it all under control for the most part.
And then you introduce. Another human being that has emotions and has all kinds of messy. It's very messy. And every day I'm like, that's interesting. So I take a different approach to it instead of getting annoyed or irritated, I try and come at it with some curiosity, and say, why, wonder why I'm getting upset.
Or I wonder why he's getting upset, so I think overall it has made me a better partner, better mother, a better friend, and just a better person.
Art Blanchford: I love what you said about your kids too, because when you talked about your motivation for why you wanted to do it, is that you wanted to be able to inspire them to be an example for how to handle things.
And that's what you've done now. Like that when they have problems now, they have a different example of how to handle it than a bottle or getting angry or yelling at somebody, right? Because of you choosing to make that transition.
Courtney Schoch: yes, absolutely. that still is my motivation today.
Sometimes I think just turned 50 and I think, wow, I've been here for half a century and still have to continue to be a good role model. No matter how old my children are.
Art Blanchford: Absolutely, absolutely. And sometimes being a good role model is, especially for children, is not easy. Right? I mean, I had this last week.
I had a very tough, I have three adult kids, 23, 20, 18, and they're all home for the summer. And, um, I was letting them slide in a way that I started to resent them. And anytime you start having resentment, it's a big red flag like to speak up. Right. And so I had a really good conversation with them, which was tough and it was really wonderful.
And they appreciated it. Like they're in a better space. Also when I said, Hey, this is, if we're all living together in the same house, then I expect we show up for meals and we're sort of on the same schedule. And if you don't want to do that, that's okay, but you don't have to live here either.
Right. You know, you're all adults and you can do your own thing, right. But if I'm living in that proximity with somebody, I want to be in community and have meals together and so forth. And they were like, Oh yeah, we do too. it's just lazy and we just don't bother. I said, well, let's bother.
Yeah. Okay. Then we're in. Right. But to have those uncomfortable conversations, even with people we love, or especially with people we love, especially if resentment is going to come up if you don't, right. It's super important. That's a big red flag from, Brene Brown. If I'm going to resent later, better have the uncomfortable conversation now.
Courtney Schoch: Absolutely. And, you Push it down. And then sometime it just ends up then bubbling over at some point when you definitely don't want it to. And now it's become such a bigger thing when you could have just had the conversation like you did. And how did you feel after you had the conversation?
That was good.
Art Blanchford: It was really good. And then the kids felt a lot better about it too. Actually. And it's been a lot more fun having meals together and, doing stuff together instead of just being passing each other in the night, So it's really good. I'm glad that
Courtney Schoch: you did that. a lot of people don't want to have those difficult conversations.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. And that was one of the keys for my success in business is I called them courageous conversations. I was always willing to have those conversations, like really honest, vulnerable, open, tough conversations that, I would always say to myself, care enough to be honest.
Courtney Schoch: Don't
Art Blanchford: let my own discomfort keep me from sharing the truth with somebody else.
Right. Especially the leader in business. So that's been, and I've tried live that way with my kids as well. what transition do you see coming up for you? What's next? Or what are you maybe waiting for a little while that you see coming up? That's a transition that you're headed toward.
Courtney Schoch: So when my book launched, in April of 2020, everything canceled for me, my speaking events, my everything.
yeah, it's totally. And I had actually. was on my way out from flying and in my book, I was actually leaving fine. because I was going to speak and I was going to do a whole bunch of different projects. And as fate would have it, that clearly wasn't the direction I was supposed to go.
And so I ended up going and, I fly for Southwest Airlines now, which is much more matched up with who I am. And I've been there for a few years. And what I've been avoiding was going back and doing more with my book, going back and speaking and doing things like that, because I got spooked with COVID.
Cause in my mind, I'm like, Oh my God, what if something happens? Something else just happens. I put out my heart and soul and I schedule all these events again. And I mean, out, who knows, you know, I never saw that coming. And so that's something that has been very intimidating for me and, fearful and just within the last couple of months, there's been, that's part of me that said, okay, Courtney.
If something you're afraid of, that means you got to go out there and tackle it. You know, so that's what's on the horizon is, going out and do more speaking events, doing some more leadership training. I've got several people who've read my book and they're like, where's the sequel? Like we got to know what's happening next.
And so probably sitting down and writing the second book. So those are. Yep. So, now, because what I really, really, really feel like I'm called to do, which I've been missing because I've been so focused on myself working for Southwest, this new relationship, getting married moved to Florida about a year ago.
It's been all about sort of getting my life back in line and, you know, what I've really missed is the community part of that because I've gotten away from that. So that so by doing these things, it is to re engage in terms of who can I inspire? Just like, when I stood up on that stage in San Diego is it's not about me.
It's about impact can be made by me taking this action. And that's what all these actions are. So once again, if I don't think about how it's benefiting me and I think about others, it feels like I'm giving back. And so that's, what's on the horizon right now.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. And creating that community. I think that's so important.
And so many people looking for, I just started a. Peer advisory community for myself because I wanted to have that. And I had our, we had our first meeting this week and we named it, rising impact, peer advisory community, which I thought was pretty cool. Yeah. The thing that was interesting to me. That I was going around like asking everybody, what do you bring to the party?
And what do you need from the party? Right? What do you have to contribute? What do you need? And one of the things that everybody said was community, a sense of community with people that are, I don't want you to say leveling up that are really going for it in their life. it's fun to play.
Volleyball. If everybody's got the same effort, right? if two people are just standing around and two people are, trying to play, it's not that much fun a game. All right. So I think there's a strong desire of having community. For people that are, in the growth mindset and in an open mindset and really wanting to do things and so forth.
So, but that was one of the things that surprised me was the sense of how many people in a very different places in life, but all wanting to do something worthwhile, like you're talking about, and that a lot of people are really looking for a community where they can share. What they're working on and their growth and be appreciated and so forth.
So I thought that was pretty interesting when you said that community, it's really important for all of us. I mean, the same conversation I was having with my kids, right, breaking bread together is about community it's really important for us. we're social creatures and we're wired for growth and we're wired for connection to something bigger than ourselves.
Whether we believe that or not, we are. And if you miss those things, life can become really shallow and hollow and sad pretty quickly,
Courtney Schoch: completely. And you think now more than ever, the last few years, when all that connection was cut off to a certain COVID and then we. a lot of people, I believe we're like, oh, that's great to get to stay home.
And, everything gets to take a pause, but little did you realize the impact that it was going to have. And I think that now a couple of years later, we're really seeing the devastating impacts that it's having on top of, , a lot of on your screen, a lot of screen time, things like that.
That's not
Art Blanchford: real people.
Courtney Schoch: Not real people, not reality and having the ability to, like you said, to share with somebody to have someone to hold you accountable to have someone also, as you said to like, care enough to be honest and, just have that. Feedback and also conversations conversations that aren't 1 waythis is my rule.
I always feel like, A conversation. If you're going to make comments that only sound like a Facebook post, you're not really having a conversation.
Art Blanchford: Yeah, for sure. For sure.
Courtney Schoch: Reciprocal, you know, I feel like, getting back to that. So with your group, I'm sure that's incredibly impactful and powerful for all the members of it.
So kudos to you for getting that going.
Art Blanchford: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. No, I think about like COVID did so many things. I mean, it made. It normalized screens, which in some ways was nice. You don't have to travel as much, but it also separates people. And then even like we have everything delivered to our house now, so we don't even interact with people at the hardware store at the grocery store, or even go back a few more generations, the butcher and the vegetable stand.
and even I noticed myself, and then I was listening to the surgeon general talk about loneliness recently, and this really, made impact to me like during COVID when I would get out in the grocery store, even even when we're all wearing masks, I just noticed I didn't make eye contact with people.
I couldn't see their smile. Right? So even if you're sort of like walking around as a zombie, it's not the same as really connecting with people. then everybody got used to buying everything on Amazon or DoorDash or whatever. So it is really important, just the amount of social connection that we had in our daily life is not there automatically anymore.
So it's even more important to keep building those relationships and find community where you're, bringing something to the party and getting something from the party. And it feels really valuable and you're being inspired and inspiring and to keep that growing and learning for everybody.
Courtney Schoch: Absolutely. And how many times do you just to touch on that one more time or a separate issue is the inability for people to just converse, to look you in the eye, like to your point, it's like we need that connection. And I think
Art Blanchford: it's one of the things with all you mentioned social media before we got on the air, but one of the things with social media and with young people they don't even talk on the phone, let alone have real conversations, right?
They just text, right? Or snapchat or, tick tock or whatever. And that's one of the things that I feel like is, something we need to do to bring people together. Even more last year, I had the incredible pleasure of leaving my five siblings, five nieces and nephews and one brave sister in law.
In a week long backpacking journey in Northwest Montana.
Courtney Schoch: Oh, wow. That sounds awesome.
Art Blanchford: Oh, the connection was talk about living in community. It was the highest example of that I've had in my life. All right. For one week, we're all together. There's no phone. I mean, phones, there's no cell phone signal.
There's no sound of airplanes. There's no artificial light. Right. And we're just living very intentionally together and everything is in lockstep. And we had from seven years old to 54. and it was really great, it was really, really wonderful and the connection and the play and of course the teenagers didn't want to come to start with, but once they were there, it was amazing.
Courtney Schoch: It's amazing that everyone realized. The value of it and everyone made time to surprise me
Art Blanchford: to be honest. It surprised me. it was started by me and my one older brother who lives in Montana. they've been back and forth overseas a bunch. And so they're home in the summer.
And, he said, Hey, you You want to go do a backpack trip, , you can come with me and my two kids and we'll just go do a journey in the woods. I said, yeah, absolutely. He said, I just feel like we've been living so scattered and his family. As he said, it'd be so good for us and it'd be good for you.
I said, yeah, that's great. I love being in the woods. So we would just. We planned it ourselves in February and then a brother found out about it. Hey, I want to come. And then a sister found out about it. Hey, I want to come. And the other sister, Hey, I want to come. And we ended up with 12 people and it was, fantastic.
It was really, it was really wonderful. So
Courtney Schoch: sounds amazing. I just came back in March from Antarctica. We did a expedition vessel or I ran up supposed to have been a marathon ended up being a half marathon. I got injured with plantar fasciitis. But all that aside, being a nature, I think down and really somewhere very, very remote
Art Blanchford: hands
Courtney Schoch: down is just such a, life changing on this experience.
It's a spiritual experience, so
Art Blanchford: I had that experience lot of times, but I noticed in Montana the third day. of being completely unplugged and being completely in nature. I mean, every night we there's no campsites or anything. I mean, we were in the wild, right? I've mapped out a route and, we were camping most nights by a stream, right?
We had to have water obviously to camp. You see there a lake or a stream. So most nights were set up by a stream and the water is running by, but by the Third day, I was like, it was like nirvana. I mean, I was so happy and so stress free and everything. And I was like, wow, this is really amazing. And then I read Michael Easterly's book, the comfort crisis right after I got back and there's all the science behind it that he points out in this book, that it is, if you go into.
Complete nature. I mean, he talks about it in different ways, like a city park versus, being way out in the bush in Montana. but then in three days your body completely resets, sleep well. And that's exactly what I had just experienced and everyone around me. And I even remember one of my sisters.
It's just funny how, like, when we live the way our bodies are meant to live, i. e. the way they evolved, right, for the last 50, 000 years, how different it is. One of my sisters said she had this issue with her tongue, like her taste buds were gone. And her doctor had said maybe it was because she was drinking too many sparkling waters.
So she quit for three days and she has, obviously it wasn't that didn't help, but she was laughing. She's like, and I'm on the fifth day here in the wild, just drinking water out of a stream, with a filter and iodine, but, and she said, it's gone. My tongue is completely healed. Oh gosh. So it's just like living the way that our bodies are meant to live in, or in synchronicity with our bodies.
it's always amazing. And even though I know that I still, when I get back in real life, then I go, go, go, and I don't sleep and I have all this stuff. And it's amazing when we live that way what a wonderful way to build community as well.
Courtney Schoch: Absolutely. And I'm curious, how long does it take you from when you get off the plane or whatever it is that is your normal environment?
How long does that, sort of serene feeling last?
Art Blanchford: That's a really good question. And it, depends a lot about, What I'm coming back into, but it's not very long. It's like one to 10 days.
Courtney Schoch: Yeah.
Art Blanchford: and so it's, about building those quiet spaces in ourselves to the daily practices of meditation and prayer journaling and nature.
Like I'm out six days a week. I take one day completely off from everything, but six days a week I'm out at sunrise, either on the bike or on my feet. A lot of it's right because it's such a good place to live, to have that downtime and communication. Yeah, it really is. It really is. And, it's one of those things that I think I don't have time for when I'm not doing it.
And then if I do it for a while and stop, even for a day or two, I noticed immediately how much I miss it. And that is, one of those things that I don't, I can't not have time for. Right. It's always first night. My prayer and journaling and meditation is first, first in the morning and then outside, and they're running or biking.
Yeah.
Courtney Schoch: Well, I think that those things become like, they're naturally addicting because that's what you're meant to be doing. it's the positive addiction and we just have to, embrace that. And like you said, make time for it because it's so important.
Art Blanchford: So I have one, actually two final questions, but this is the last like super interesting one.
Okay. if you could give one tool, I mean, you've had a tremendous life experience, Courtney, and you've shared a lot of inspiration and a lot of help with a lot of folks, with yourself, with your family and with people farther out than that. If you could give one tool to our listeners help take their life in the desired direction, something simple, something actionable, something they can do now, what would that be?
Well, the one thing you would recommend.
Courtney Schoch: It is the one thing. The biggest takeaway ever learned from Tony Robbins, right? to ask better questions hands down to ask better questions. And it is something that I find myself having to practice every single day is the language that we use. So, my advice would be.
Ask yourself better questions, not the limiting questions, but as opposed to why can't I, how can I. Or what's, the one action that I can take to move myself in this direction or to feel better? Mm-Hmm. Or to lose the weight, or to be a better spouse or friend or mother or father, whatever it is.
Mm-Hmm. Just ask a better question. Not why am I not, like, don't focus on short what you're not doing. Right. That would be my biggest, biggest, take. Oh,
Art Blanchford: I love that. That's awesome. Yeah. Ask a better question. Yeah. That's wonderful. And I think of that, like, one of the things I use a lot in coaching is I'll ask people
what's next? And they'll say, I don't know. And then I'll say, okay, but if you did know what would be next, right? So that's, another ask a better question. It's a little subset of that. So no, that's great. Thank you. And that's something anybody can do. It doesn't cost any money. It doesn't take any time.
Ask a better question. Thank you, Courtney. wonderful. Then the last question is where can our listeners find out more about you? And all these interesting things that you're up to.
Courtney Schoch: Yeah, sure. So, my website, which is Courtney shock. com, you can go on my website. also my nonprofit, which is, run UK.
That's R U N U C A T. com that I've taken a little bit of a break from. So I think the Courtney shock. com is the best one to find out like what I'm up to. Two, I'm on social media. I'm not very active on social media, but my website, if you want to drop me a message, or just find out about some of the things that I've done, if you want to buy my book, if anything, just it's all there and
Art Blanchford: all of that will be in the show notes as well.
We'll connect, but Courtney, thank you so much. It's been a really, really a pleasure reconnecting with you and, learning so much more of your inspiring wisdom. And I think it's really useful. So thank you so much for being with us today on life in transition.
Courtney Schoch: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Thank you for everyone for listening.
Have a great day.